Episode 13: Ocean x New York Climate Week
Oceans at Climate Week: What We Learned in NYC — From hopeful storytelling to emerging ocean science, this special solo episode of Oceanography brings you inside New York Climate Week through the lens of the sea. Host Clark Marchese shares how oceans shaped this year’s conversations — from Indigenous leadership and NOAA’s challenges to groundbreaking coral restoration and marine carbon removal. Discover how artists, activists, and scientists are redefining ocean storytelling and why it matters for our planet’s future. Whether you’re passionate about climate action, marine conservation, or science communication, this episode connects the dots between oceans, policy, and people
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Episode Transcript and more information on the Pine Forest Media website
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Hosted, produced, and edited by Clark Marchese
Learn more about New York Climate Week
Trump administration pushes ahead with NOAA climate and weather cuts - article from science.org
Immerse yourself in the the work of artist Benjamin Van Wong on his website or on Instagram
Listen to the Wiser World Podcast https://wiserworld.com/
Cover art by Jomiro Eming
Theme music by Nela Ruiz
Find some more Pine Forest Media podcasts below:
Listen to South Pole on Spotify or Apple Podcasts
Listen to Plastic Podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts
Listen to Something in the Water on Spotify or Apple Podcasts
Transcript:
Clark Marchese (00:11.673)
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Oceanography, the podcast that dives deep into the science of our oceans, the latest in marine research, and the scientists working hard to better understand and protect our blue planet. Today, we are going to New York.
Clark Marchese (00:56.83)
Alright, hello oceanography listeners. I hope you are doing alright today. Thank you so much for being here. My name is Clark Rakeysi. I am your host today and we are going to spend some quality time together. For the first time in Pine Forest Media history, we don't have a guest this episode. I know it's the 13th episode of the Oceanography podcast, but Pine Forest Media has about 70 episodes of content across our four series where we talk to scientists and researchers all about the work they're doing in the environment.
Many of them are truly experts in their field. Brilliant scientists. And if you've listened to a handful of episodes, you'll know that I am not a scientist, just a curious storyteller. But because of the science education we're trying to do with our shows, it never made sense to flip the mic around towards myself. But today I have some things I want to talk about with you. Just over two weeks ago, I was lucky enough to attend New York Climate Week. And today I'm going to give my recap of all the waves oceans came up in conversations over the week in the Big Apple.
It's a bit of an experimental episode, so we'll see how it goes. But I wanted to go to Climate Week because it's a bit of an interesting time in the world. On one hand, environmental issues are more apparent than ever. And on the other hand, we have a lot of other things demanding our attention. All the while, certain actors are actively undermining the environmental progress we fall really hard for. I know it's a lot to juggle, but we have to try not to let climate fall into the background. And New York Climate Week is a place that brings a lot of really important and really brilliant people enter rooms of all kinds. And I really wanted to know what was being said in these kinds of rooms. So I went and I listened and now I'm going to share it with you. Before I dive into what Climate Week is and the themes that I saw emerging there, there are a couple of things I should say upfront. First of all, it's a little bit of a serious episode. There was a lot of weight behind some of the conversations being had, so let's prepare ourselves for that. In the name, it's New York Climate Week, so... It wasn't an entirely ocean-focused week, and I did attend many events across a range of issues. Today, though, I am only focusing on how the oceans showed up. And with that being said, I also did not get a chance to attend every single ocean-related event. Also, I will be quoting some people directly and indirectly. I'm not going to attribute these quotes to the people who said them, but I will only be quoting people who spoke at events that were livestreamed to the public.
Clark Marchese (03:20.918)
I also wanted to say that I did manage to go to a range of different types of events, some that were science-heavy, others policy-focused, and some organized by grassroots organizations. The themes I identified were carried across all of these sectors, and I did my best to create a bit of a synthesis. Okay, I think that's all. This is not a typical oceanography episode, but I think if you're enjoying the podcast so far, you'll find it pretty relevant. It's also given me some time to prepare a couple of really exciting upcoming episodes, that are also going to come with a big announcement in about two weeks. So that's all I'm going to say there for now. And the last thing before we begin, if you think that this type of environmental reporting we're doing here at Pine Forks Media and on the Oceanography podcast is important and you'd like to support us, a one tap five star review on Apple podcasts or wherever you're listening will really help us reach more people and get the word out there about ocean science. All right, that's all before we start. Thank you so much for being here and let's get going.
Clark Marchese (04:40.178)
Alright, I think the first place to start is a little recap of what New Year Climate Week is and how I find myself there. Essentially, it is a branded event that draws in organizations from around the world to discuss the climate. It is not as centralized as the event we discussed on Thursday, for example, when we were discussing Motion 035 to protect the Mesopelagic Zone, the Ocean Twilight Zone. That piece of policy was being voted on at the IUCN conference.
The International Union for the Conservation of Nature was the host of that. It secured the venue and such, and members of that organization were invited to attend. New York Climate Week is very different. In this sense, I would say the city of New York was the host, and New York Climate Week is a brand that helps participating organizations find one another. So if you're an environmental organization and you'd like to host an event, you can apply to have it listed on the New York Climate Week website, use their logo, et cetera. but you design the concept of the event, find the venue, invite people, and so on. I think this is really great because it allows for such a wide range of participation. There were businesses and large NGOs as well as small community organizations all connecting during the week. And there are dozens and dozens of events throughout the city. Some are free, some are ticketed, some in person, others held virtually, some are private and invitation only, and others are open to the public, though you may need to reserve a spot in advance.
This year it was from September 21st to 28th, so it has passed, but if you're curious about attending next year and you happen to be in New York in September, you can check out the website and see what events might be of interest to you. This is also not the only climate week out there. San Francisco has one, so does San Diego. New York is the largest event like this, but there may be one closer to you. London, I believe, has one, as does Paris. So how did I find myself there?
Somewhat serendipitously, I had never been to New York before, but I saw an announcement for it in a newsletter and after seeing that many events are open to the public, I decided to go. In part because I was curious about it and the conversations it would be had, but also because I thought it would be nice to report back to all of you and see what's going on with the oceans at this event too. And the oceans did come up in a number of ways. I've broken them into themes that we can discuss one by one. Of course,
Clark Marchese (06:59.911)
The importance of the oceans was very much a part of the conversation. But in addition to that, I found some interesting discourse shifts that were happening around strategies that we use to tell stories about the ocean and what stories we should be telling and how. There were also a lot of discussions about the United States federal government and the current state of environmental policy within the United States. There were discussions about leadership from indigenous communities. And I also learned a lot about different conservation projects and initiatives.
And of course, there were calls for more scientific research on a number of ocean-related technologies that have inspired a bunch of forthcoming oceanography episodes. So we will be running through all of those different themes, and then I have some final reflections. The last thing I'll say upfront, and this was a bit of a surprise to me, was the seriousness that set the tone for every conversation I heard. It was a little bit intense, but I did appreciate it.
And this is not an alarmist podcast or episode, but having followed climate discussions for the last many years quite actively, I did notice a shift. I don't know if there was a single moment when it happened, but it used to be sort of a framework where we would say, you know, the crisis is coming towards us, or this is what the future will look like. Now it seems like the conversations are more in the context of the crisis is here, we are in it. Which is a little bit hard to contend with, but it did make me feel a bit of a relief to hear people acknowledge it. use language that reflects our shared knowledge and our lived experience, and that it was being said by people who are taking it very seriously and who are also very action-oriented. This did set the tone for the conference and so it will also set the tone for this episode. Alright, let's start with theme number one, ocean storytelling. Now, I did notice a call for a discourse change regarding the oceans in a number of ways. The first ocean event I went to was really special. It took place on a boat.
I suppose normally it is a maritime museum for the city of New York, but it was a pretty unique venue. The tone was set immediately. The opening remarks reflected that we, the public, have gone from spectators to victims. And this was in the context of government inaction. It acknowledged the work that has been done by ocean activism and scientific research completed by the kind of people we usually hear from on the show and that governments saw this and heard what we had to say and didn't listen. So...
Clark Marchese (09:18.266)
In that case, the impacts of climate change are being inflicted upon us. And the idea was not to give in to our victimhood, but to think about how we can become, quote, disruptors. This, of course, means maximizing whatever leverage our democratic systems still afford us, but more focused on how we can move forward on ocean action, even if our governments won't. Government failure was a huge theme of the whole week. And that statement was followed by a call for all entrepreneurs in the audience to raise their hand.
Then for all the investors. It was pretty powerful. And I think that collaboration is the bridge we can walk across to get from victimhood to active agency. Another call for a discourse shift was to move towards storytelling of hope and innovation. Rhetoric that induces fear, panic, division, and rage is all around us and it's clearly not working and in fact causing a lot of problems. Leading with stories of hope is something that I try to do on this podcast and I hope that comes through. but maybe I can offer some stories of hope that were shared at this event. We heard from a scientist from an organization called Blue Parks that works to establish and maintain marine protected areas. And she told us again, what we heard a couple of weeks ago, that these mechanisms are really effective if done properly. And all we really have to do is stop. When the harmful activity stopped, the oceans have a really encouraging track record of recovery. We also heard from Sky Truth, who I hope to have on this podcast actually. about how satellite technology can help us monitor the benefits of these marine protected areas and can even help us record the impacts of things like oil spills and quickly point to areas of the ocean that need intervention. I also learned the term positive deviant. Basically, this refers to an individual or a group who has found a new, uncommon or unconventional solution to a commonly shared problem. And I learned this from a woman from an organization called Edges of the Earth and she spoke about how her work seeks to find and connect positive deviants, organizations doing great work in ocean conservation who have figured out lessons that we can learn from. I also hope to get some of these positive deviants on the show as well. And this is just a handful of hopeful stories that we heard on that boat that day. I hope this selection shows how the storytelling efforts go from grave seriousness to impactful action. It is optimism grounded in reality and community.
Clark Marchese (11:36.306)
So this podcast will continue to follow suit on that storytelling strategy. One more person I want to mention in this storytelling section, and I will share this person's name. We had a very special guest share about his work, Benjamin Von Wong. I really encourage you to check out some of his work linked in the episode description. He is a very famous environmental artist and activist. You may have seen some of his work. He makes very large conceptual installations with very poignant messaging and often using unconventional material. For example, he created a large tap or a faucet from which flows a stream of plastic bottles. It was placed at the foreground of the negotiations for a UN treaty on plastics pollution. Now, this is a bit of a digression, but there was a mandate from the UN placed on countries to agree upon a highly ambitious treaty to address plastics. And there was also a deadline by which they were meant to agree, which has passed without a resolution. We remain hopeful and we're watching this space. But one of the reasons that the negotiations failed was a disagreement on the level to which it should regulate the production of plastics in addition to pollution. Now, there's a metaphor that's often used in this space. Imagine you come home to your flat and you see the faucet has been left running. You would go to turn it off before you would start to grab them up. And this art installation reflects that. And the negotiators had to walk past it every single day. Benjamin showed many of his other installations and highlighted the importance of art in environmental storytelling and activism.
He asked the question, why aren't there more environmental monuments? I would also absolutely love to speak with him, so I will work on that, but his work is linked in the episode for all of you to be inspired in the meantime. All right, I think that's all I have time for on ocean storytelling. And now I'm going to move into politics a little bit. The current US administration was also a major theme of the entire week and the conversations I'm about to reference happened at a separate event. This one on land, which I think is also a metaphor itself because we do need to stay grounded in the extreme seriousness of our current situation, but also similarly stay forward-looking and upward thinking. NOAA or the NOAA or the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration was a big focus. We have talked about this organization before and even spoken to a researcher from it. It is a US federally funded organization similar to NASA that conducts a lot of extremely essential research.
Clark Marchese (14:00.058)
about marine ecosystems, climate change, extreme weather, and storms across issues that are of extremely global and hyper-local relevance. We heard from a high-level administrator from NOAA who had been, at the time of Climate Week, placed on administrative leave. I am not sure the current state of his employment. This event happened in late September. Anyways, as you may remember if you listened to our very first episode, I discussed how the current US administration had planned to defund the organization.
Now was a while ago and the title of this person's speech at climate week was updates from the US war on ocean and climate sciences. Now this is not my language, but this is the language that is being used by officials and administrators to describe the current state of affairs. Along with the lyrics of Defying Gravity, we do need to hold a bit of space for that. This speaker went on to tell us that there is a trifold attack on the science and information branches of the US federal government. The mission, the workforce, and the infrastructure. I'm going to relay the broad strokes with an example here and there, bearing in mind that he only had a handful of moments to speak. In reference to the mission, he explained that mandates for federal organizations are usually pretty broad. For example, a NOAA mandate could be something like monitor the weather. And this is intentionally broad to allow for the expansiveness of investigation deemed necessary by experts. However, the current administration is limiting action to that which is explicitly stated. So using this rough example of monitoring the weather, NOAA's scope could be limited to reporting on daily degrees Fahrenheit, and larger programs to monitor climate systems or weather patterns or even natural disasters have been halted. Again, I'm just reporting on what is being said in the room and pointing out that while I would love to dig deeper, these are anecdotal examples. I encourage everyone listening to do a bit of their own digging and to stay on top of what is happening at NOAA. The second coordinated attack he explained was on the workforce. He said that there was a 20 to 25 % staff reduction across all the science agencies and an immediate freeze on new hires. That every single contract would be reviewed. That some of the older members of teams, the most senior level employees with the most institutional and scientific expertise are being heavily encouraged and even incentivized to retire. The workforce is scared, he said, but there's a hopeful spin on this, which I will circle back to. The last attack is on infrastructure. IT systems have been stripped.
Clark Marchese (16:24.516)
Grants have been stifled and funding has been frozen. Now I also have to mention, and this was kind of a strange alignment in the universe, only a couple hours after the speech was given, Donald Trump spoke at the United Nations General Assembly, only a couple blocks away. And if you saw parts of his speech recorded and circulating around social media, this very same day he said in front of the leaders of the world, among other things, that climate change is quote, the greatest con job ever perpetrated on the world.
and that, predictions made by the United Nations and many others, often for bad reasons, were made by stupid people, end quote. So what do we do with all of this? Referencing a bit earlier when we talked about how we're going to move forward when our governments refuse to, the NOAA administrator advised that we, quote, do not think about restructuring the system we had, end quote. Instead, we think about creating one that is interdisciplinary and open to collaboration everywhere.
The workforce is scared, but the subject matter knowledge still exists, and the people working at these agencies are extremely smart and want to stay engaged, and the data is still accessible for now. I think I'm going to leave this section here for now while we watch this space unfold. I'll put a bit of further reading about NOAA and the Shono's. I think the takeaway and the reality is that in this current moment, there is a big leadership vacuum, and that is a great opportunity. Who should fill it? is also a theme of New York Climate Week. Now, I'm going to take a moment to talk about how Indigenous voices were showing up. This is also a topic that has been brought up on the Oceanography podcast so far, and as we go along, I'm following the different threads. This one does keep coming up, and is one that I'm eager to keep learning and sharing about. Something that I heard at the beginning of many events I attended on this topic or not was an Indigenous land acknowledgement. New York Climate Week was held on the unceded land of the Lenape people. This tribe still has a presence in what is now called New York City and the surrounding areas. Throughout the week, I heard two major themes emerge on this topic. The first is the importance and necessity of having indigenous knowledge heavily involved in decision making because, and I can only speak for the white western world, we are really not getting it right at all. Now, this is a topic I'm certainly not an expert on.
Clark Marchese (18:43.705)
I am a beginner really, but this podcast is a space for us to expand our knowledge on things we are curious about and things that are important. And this is one area I do plan to keep learning more about. The other theme was what I might call indigenous considerations. How do we make sure that the effort against climate change doesn't perpetuate colonial or neo-colonial patterns? I will provide some ocean specific examples of what this does, has, and should look like in our next section. But really quickly, I want to take a moment. to highlight another podcast. If you enjoy the Pine Forest Media approach of digging into topics we don't yet know a lot about, and the forces shaping our natural world, you might be interested in a podcast that looks into the forces shaping our human world too. Wiser World is a podcast that brings a similar curiosity to history and culture. It makes global history feel approachable, with thoughtful episodes exploring the context behind major headlines, world religions, and travel destinations from Sudan to Cuba to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and modern China. Each episode helps you understand how the past shapes the present. Just search Wiser World on your favorite podcast app or visit wiserworld.com. I am a super fan of the show, so I thought that listeners might be interested in it too. Okay, now for this final section before my personal reflections. We are going to talk about emerging science. Finally, caveat, I am not a scientist. Therefore, I'm not going to explain how any of this stuff works. I'm just going to run down some of the most interesting things I heard come up and express my intention to find a scientist to dig deeper into each one of these topics for a future episode. First, we're going to become introduced to two main categories of geoengineering. Now, if geoengineering is a new word, it refers to a deliberate and large scale intervention into Earth's climate systems to counteract climate change. It is a bit controversial in the scientific community, but there are two main categories of this technology. The first is solar radiation management, which attempts to manipulate the amount of sunlight and warmth that enters or stays in the atmosphere. This is sometimes referred to as SRM. And then we have carbon dioxide removal, or CDR, which attempts to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Now, on one hand, we have sunlight, warmth, and radiation.
Clark Marchese (21:05.529)
and the other we have carbon dioxide and greenhouse gases of various types. And these are two areas in which scientists have identified as potential pathways to reduce our global mean temperature rise. I'm going to start with carbon dioxide removal. And I'm not touching on the technicalities here, but there is a subset called MCDR, Marine Carbon Dioxide Removal, looking at how to do this in the ocean. And I will make an episode about it soon. But maybe just to highlight some of the conversation.
These technologies are being developed very quickly. It was remarked that five or six years ago, CDR wasn't much more than a line on a graph showing how much carbon dioxide we would need to be removed in order to set our climate systems back to pre-industrial levels. It was quote, a shadow to demonstrate our failure, end quote. But now some are saying that technology is making it a real possibility and that there are reasons to be really excited about it. National governments have already taken it into their policy directives to transition to net zero or even net negative economies. Finland and Chile are leading the way on this. And there are nature-based ways to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, planting trees, of course. But there are some human engineered methods that might, or some say should be part of a portfolio of strategies for countries to meet this objective. I'll move forward to the concerns about this technology after we cover the second type. of Geoengineering. SRM. And yes, it's another acronym. So there are two main types of solar radiation management, SRM, that I heard discussed in the context of the ocean at New York Climate Week, although others do exist. The first was marine cloud brightening, literally making clouds brighter somehow to reflect more sunlight back into space. The second was stratospheric aerosol injection, SAI. And the idea here is to inject aerosols into the atmosphere that have a similar cooling effect. Now, obviously, there are a lot of complex technicalities that we would need to understand to have a discussion about whether or not to move forward, but these are the technologies that are being proposed. And I'll quickly review the concerns and debates that exist. I won't take a stance on them because I don't have enough information to form an opinion. Now, the first debate is that it's a false solution to climate change.
Clark Marchese (23:22.201)
and what we really need to do is be focusing on reducing our human emissions. What I heard in response was that we are in a serious enough situation that we need to be exploring these technologies in tandem with the emission reduction efforts. The second objection was that we don't know what adverse or unintended consequences might arise from altering the atmosphere in such ways.
The introduction to greenhouse gases, for example, in our atmosphere has caused quite a lot of problems and our ecosystems are proving to be very sensitive to these types of changes in ways that we do and do not yet fully understand. So it may be irresponsible to deploy these technologies. Then there was a debate around research versus deployment, specifically whether or not it's too slippery of a slope. Some are saying that we need to research before deployment. Others are saying that it's too dangerous of a game to play because it leads to deployment inevitably.
especially if corporate interests get involved. Then there was a discussion about how to go about researching these methods. Flags were being raised about the potential environmental justice and environmental racism that can come with this type of research. Basically, if we do trial runs, what areas, which communities, and whose land will be the guinea pigs? The importance of securing prior and informed consent before launching a study was stated as being of great importance. And there's a debate about whether informed consent is even possible. given the scale of the unknowns. It was stated that indigenous groups separately and as a coalition have repeatedly stated their opposition to the development of these technologies. One of the reasons for this is that indigenous people often rely on subsistence living. So changes in the atmosphere or environment that affect crop yields or fish populations, for example, can have a severe impact on communities not provided for by national corporate or global food systems. It was clear to me as a spectator that these topics are going to be an ongoing conversation that will likely grow significantly in scale. Hopefully, justice continues to be a major theme that surrounds them. And we will be following these conversations on this oceanography podcast and learning more about the science behind them along the way. Okay, lastly on science, I want to give just one example of a conservation project that I found really encouraging. It was about coral reefs, particularly the Great Barrier Reef off the coast of Australia.
Clark Marchese (25:41.421)
Again, we do need to do an episode about the science of the threats facing coral reefs, ocean acidification, ocean heat waves, human pollution, etc. And we could also use an episode understanding the science of this particular intervention. But I learned that the Great Barrier Reef Foundation is having success with coral IVF. Yes, that kind of IVF that helps corals reproduce little coral babies. I'm going to try really hard to make this episode happen. And it may not be news that the Great Barrier Reef is greatly suffering.
And while it is a marine protected area, the effects of acidification and rising temperatures cannot be contained so easily. So there are some exciting interventions there as well. However, this was also an opportunity to provide a concrete example of Indigenous considerations that I was mentioning. A question from the audience asked in what ways are Indigenous communities being involved in this particular project? And the representative explained not only the ways, but also the reasons why their involvement was so important.
So as you can see, what I got out of Climate Week was a wealth of inspiration for future episodes. There's so much more that was talked about this week and that I learned that I can cram into one episode recapping the ways that the oceans came up. But I did my best to cover some of the major themes, science, and stories that I encountered. I hope you enjoyed this episode because I really enjoyed attending Climate Week and synthesizing what I heard. And I'm already starting to scheme up an idea for Pine Forest Media to perhaps host an event there next year.
So stay tuned. All right, I've been talking for a really long time at this point, and I'm not used to doing an episode with just myself. So I should probably start to wrap up now. But that is my recap of how the oceans showed up at New York Climate Week. It was a week of urgency, but also of creativity and courage. I left feeling a mix of emotions, worried, but also deeply inspired by the people who are still showing up, still trying new things and still believing the change is possible. Whether that's through science, art, policy, or storytelling, it reminded me that all of these efforts are connected. And maybe that's the real takeaway of this episode, that when we talk about the ocean, we're never talking about just the water. We're talking about the people, systems, stories, and futures. The ocean is everywhere in climate conversation, even when it's not the headline. Thank you so much for spending this time with me and for caring enough to listen. I cannot wait to share.
Clark Marchese (28:09.251)
our next couple of episodes with you. In fact, next week we are back to science science. We'll be learning all about blue carbon and what that even is. And I cannot wait. Until then, I'm Farquhar Casey and this has been Oceanography.
Clark Marchese (28:30.511)
You have been listening to Oceanography. Just a reminder to anyone interested in helping us reach more people and share ocean science like this, a five star rating or written review on Apple podcasts or wherever you're hearing this now are the easiest and most effective ways to help us out. Oceanography is a Pine Forest Media production. You can find more information about the network in the episode description. Cover art for the show was done by Jomero Emming and the music you're listening to was done by Neela Ruiz.
The show is hosted and edited by me, Clark Marchese, and you can find more information about Pine Forest Media and our other science podcasts at pineforestpods.com or follow us on social media at Pine Forest Media. All right, that is all I have for you today. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you right back here next week.
